Comments on: God is perfect http://blog.eiss.net/2007/04/09/god-is-perfect/ a layman's thoughts on Christianity, religion, & theology... and a few other things Wed, 17 Feb 2010 02:30:48 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Mary http://blog.eiss.net/2007/04/09/god-is-perfect/comment-page-1/#comment-132 Mary Tue, 10 Apr 2007 14:20:56 +0000 http://blog.eiss.net/2007/04/09/god-is-perfect/#comment-132 Ooh, that last sentence in your response to me...very good, and very sad... Thanks for what you wrote, Mary Ooh, that last sentence in your response to me…very good, and very sad…
Thanks for what you wrote,
Mary

]]> By: Mrs. Meg Logan http://blog.eiss.net/2007/04/09/god-is-perfect/comment-page-1/#comment-131 Mrs. Meg Logan Mon, 09 Apr 2007 22:52:54 +0000 http://blog.eiss.net/2007/04/09/god-is-perfect/#comment-131 "Such a god is not God at all. By Anselm’s test, this god fails because it is easy to imagine something greater. It is clearly not loving for one to have suffered terribly at the hands of another and for that other never to have to face consequences." I think I would argue that to many people, it IS loving to forgive and forget without justice. To many people (mostly unsaved and therefore unenlightened, lacking in the True Wisdom of God) to have a god who forgives without repercussions or retribution for injustices IS more perfect. Thats all Im trying to say. Meg “Such a god is not God at all. By Anselm’s test, this god fails because it is easy to imagine something greater. It is clearly not loving for one to have suffered terribly at the hands of another and for that other never to have to face consequences.”

I think I would argue that to many people, it IS loving to forgive and forget without justice. To many people (mostly unsaved and therefore unenlightened, lacking in the True Wisdom of God) to have a god who forgives without repercussions or retribution for injustices IS more perfect.

Thats all Im trying to say.

Meg

]]> By: Larry Eiss http://blog.eiss.net/2007/04/09/god-is-perfect/comment-page-1/#comment-130 Larry Eiss Mon, 09 Apr 2007 22:43:41 +0000 http://blog.eiss.net/2007/04/09/god-is-perfect/#comment-130 Meg, Yes, we've certainly been around that bush. You are correct my dear daughter, to point out that we do not serve a God who goes around passing out marshmallows and skipping merrily along forgiving everyone of everything. Such a god is not God at all. By Anselm's test, this god fails because it is easy to imagine something greater. It is clearly not loving for one to have suffered terribly at the hands of another and for that other never to have to face consequences. People want justice. One has only to look at the bumper stickers of many with sayings like "No justice, no peace." I could never serve an unjust god. Yet God in His infinte mercy and compassion, has provided Grace. His favor bestowed on the undeserving. When Adam gave away our dominion of the world to the enemy of God, we all became slaves to that evil snake. Jesus bought us back (that's what "redeemed" means) but if we just continue to say He never did, we cannot take advantage of that wonderful and most expensive gift.Each of us must "choose today who [we]will serve", but we will most certainly serve someone. --Larry Meg,
Yes, we’ve certainly been around that bush. You are correct my dear daughter, to point out that we do not serve a God who goes around passing out marshmallows and skipping merrily along forgiving everyone of everything.
Such a god is not God at all. By Anselm’s test, this god fails because it is easy to imagine something greater. It is clearly not loving for one to have suffered terribly at the hands of another and for that other never to have to face consequences. People want justice. One has only to look at the bumper stickers of many with sayings like “No justice, no peace.” I could never serve an unjust god.
Yet God in His infinte mercy and compassion, has provided Grace. His favor bestowed on the undeserving. When Adam gave away our dominion of the world to the enemy of God, we all became slaves to that evil snake. Jesus bought us back (that’s what “redeemed” means) but if we just continue to say He never did, we cannot take advantage of that wonderful and most expensive gift.Each of us must “choose today who [we]will serve”, but we will most certainly serve someone.
–Larry

]]> By: Larry Eiss http://blog.eiss.net/2007/04/09/god-is-perfect/comment-page-1/#comment-129 Larry Eiss Mon, 09 Apr 2007 22:28:58 +0000 http://blog.eiss.net/2007/04/09/god-is-perfect/#comment-129 Mary, Predestination, election, eternal security, and other such doctrines are easily twisted beyond what Scripture teaches. I was raised in the Wesleyan church, which is about as Arminian as you can get. The tenets of "Calvinism" or "reformed theology" were roundly rejected by those around me as I was forming my understanding of our wonderful Lord Jesus. Today I have come to agree that we do not have to worry about losing our salvation. Grace is not law, and Jesus did indeed pay the price for ALL my sins--even the ones I have yet to commit. Still, I think God's people need to be gentle with one another in areas such as this. Precisely because God IS perfect (read "infinite") we can never hope to truly understand Him until the darkened glass through which we view Him is removed. I like your Dad's idea about the nine characteristics of the fruit of the Spirit. It's very important to keep in mind that our awesome Lord IS love. Too often "they'll know we are Christians by" our grouchiness, backbiting, and judgemental attitudes, rather than "our Love" as He desires. Thanks for reading! --Larry Mary,
Predestination, election, eternal security, and other such doctrines are easily twisted beyond what Scripture teaches. I was raised in the Wesleyan church, which is about as Arminian as you can get. The tenets of “Calvinism” or “reformed theology” were roundly rejected by those around me as I was forming my understanding of our wonderful Lord Jesus. Today I have come to agree that we do not have to worry about losing our salvation. Grace is not law, and Jesus did indeed pay the price for ALL my sins–even the ones I have yet to commit. Still, I think God’s people need to be gentle with one another in areas such as this. Precisely because God IS perfect (read “infinite”) we can never hope to truly understand Him until the darkened glass through which we view Him is removed.
I like your Dad’s idea about the nine characteristics of the fruit of the Spirit. It’s very important to keep in mind that our awesome Lord IS love. Too often “they’ll know we are Christians by” our grouchiness, backbiting, and judgemental attitudes, rather than “our Love” as He desires.
Thanks for reading!
–Larry

]]> By: Mrs. Meg Logan http://blog.eiss.net/2007/04/09/god-is-perfect/comment-page-1/#comment-127 Mrs. Meg Logan Mon, 09 Apr 2007 22:24:02 +0000 http://blog.eiss.net/2007/04/09/god-is-perfect/#comment-127 I agree that God is perfect, and that He is "that than which nothing greater can be concieved". But I get concerned with tauting this to the extreme, because people are flawed in their thinking, and what seems perfect to some, is in reality NOT perfect. For example, some believe that total tolerance and a god who forgives everyone, even those who do not repent, is perfect. More perfect even than the God whom we know and love, who is ALSO perfect justice. I think another way that people can be mistaken about what is perfect, is in the area of discipline and punishment. Thinking that God is ONLY grace and mercy and longsuffering, and NEVER just, and Judge and discipliner is a fallacy of human thinking. I believe that these flawed understandings of perfection are a result of eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Where before Adam based ALL that he knew of good and evil on the Lord's word, now we THINK we know better than He, what is good and right, and what is evil and wrong. Anyway, just my two cents. I know we have been around this bush a dozen times! LOL In Christ, Meg I agree that God is perfect, and that He is “that than which nothing greater can be concieved”. But I get concerned with tauting this to the extreme, because people are flawed in their thinking, and what seems perfect to some, is in reality NOT perfect.

For example, some believe that total tolerance and a god who forgives everyone, even those who do not repent, is perfect. More perfect even than the God whom we know and love, who is ALSO perfect justice.

I think another way that people can be mistaken about what is perfect, is in the area of discipline and punishment. Thinking that God is ONLY grace and mercy and longsuffering, and NEVER just, and Judge and discipliner is a fallacy of human thinking. I believe that these flawed understandings of perfection are a result of eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Where before Adam based ALL that he knew of good and evil on the Lord’s word, now we THINK we know better than He, what is good and right, and what is evil and wrong.

Anyway, just my two cents. I know we have been around this bush a dozen times! LOL

In Christ,
Meg

]]> By: Mary http://blog.eiss.net/2007/04/09/god-is-perfect/comment-page-1/#comment-126 Mary Mon, 09 Apr 2007 21:31:14 +0000 http://blog.eiss.net/2007/04/09/god-is-perfect/#comment-126 Larry, I whole-heartedly agree with your thoughts as expressed here...I've always embraced the "free-will" of man, for much the same reasons. Lately I've been chewing over a good friend's input on "predestination". I respect her so much, but don't agree...even though I can see, from her arguments, where she is coming from. To me, the predestination theory holds as many holes as the idea of a God that can take away your salvation every time you sin. Of course, He could do this, but He won't. He sacrificed His son once, for all sin...I truly believe the only sin that separates man from God is the sin of unbelief. Of course, I also believe that many "lukewarm" Christians may only be deluding themselves about their sincerity in the faith... One last thought, since you have the theme here, of God being love. I like what my dad teaches about the fruit of the spirit in Galations, that the fruit of the Spirit is love, characterized by the other fruits: joy, peace, patience, kindness, etc. And, thank you, for adding me to your blogroll! Larry, I whole-heartedly agree with your thoughts as expressed here…I’ve always embraced the “free-will” of man, for much the same reasons. Lately I’ve been chewing over a good friend’s input on “predestination”. I respect her so much, but don’t agree…even though I can see, from her arguments, where she is coming from. To me, the predestination theory holds as many holes as the idea of a God that can take away your salvation every time you sin. Of course, He could do this, but He won’t. He sacrificed His son once, for all sin…I truly believe the only sin that separates man from God is the sin of unbelief.

Of course, I also believe that many “lukewarm” Christians may only be deluding themselves about their sincerity in the faith…

One last thought, since you have the theme here, of God being love. I like what my dad teaches about the fruit of the spirit in Galations, that the fruit of the Spirit is love, characterized by the other fruits: joy, peace, patience, kindness, etc.

And, thank you, for adding me to your blogroll!

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